Alternative to .38 Special Recoil

[brians356]

Shooting gel means very little if not done correctly, and even when it is done correctly, there are a lot of variables that still come into play. Shooting water jugs, wet phone books, and similar media is fun, but that is about the end of it.

Fair enough. But other than FBI style gel test (w/ clothing barrier) to observe penetration, consistency of same, and expansion, (see LuckyGunner Labs) how else do we have any idea about the performance of a particular cartridge? Gotta go somewhere.

There are "premium" defense rounds from trusted manufacturers which are wildly inconsistent in performance. I simply cannot just assume anything. I'm curious how you ascertain you're carrying a defense round that performs in even the top quartile of the scores of choices.

In a time when more people are carrying, and so many more women, and 22 Mag, 32 Auto, even 22 LR are touted as "better than nothing", I'd carry a 32-cal 98-gr wadcutter traveling nearly 700 fps from a snubbie without qualms. A 148-gr 38-cal WC at 700+ fps as well.
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[Autonomous]

The issue with wadcutters is lack of expansion. Even hollow point bullets penetrate through parts of the body, but with a wadcutter there is no expansion at all...

The thread is about reduced recoil .38 Special loads.
In this category the chances of finding a hollow point that will reliably expand is nil. Even if one did expand, the low velocity-energy left would not offer much penetration.
Fluted bullets such as the ARX may offer some advantage over conventional solids. Frangible bullets do not penetrate well at all.
The fact is low recoil .38 caliber cartridges do not offer a lot of options. A solid low velocity round will do the job better than nothing.

 

[kelljor]

Can you cite an instance where someone got into any legal trouble from carrying handloads?

Seems to me the one person who could answer that might be Ayoob. Maybe research his articles?

 

[magnum0710]

Seems to me the one person who could answer that might be Ayoob. Maybe research his articles?

The one case Ayoob normally points to is the Daniel Bias case. Mr and Mrs Bias were from New Jersey (there's a hint) and Mrs Bias committed suicide using a 38 that Mr Bias had loaded with light handloads.

The prosecution said it couldn't have been suicide, the powder burn wasn't consistent with suicide, she had to have been shot from across the room. The problem was they tested this theory with full power factory ammo. Your own personal handload logs can't be admitted into evidence, it's considered manufacturing evidence which was another issue in the case. Daniel Bias was innocent but IIRC he spent 10 years in prison before he was proven innocent.

The thing is, this was New Jersey which isn't exactly a 2a friendly state and this wasn't a self defense case. I don't know of any bona fide self defense case where the use of hand loads was an issue, Jim Cirillo was on the NYPD stakeout squad and carried his own hand loaded wadcutters. Granted that was in 70s but this fear of handloads has only been a thing in recent history. Bill Jordan carried his own 38/44 hand loads in the line of duty also.

I'm not saying everyone should carry their own hand loads, I still carry factory ammo myself 99% of the time. What I'm saying is the fear is over blown IMO. If you're in a 2a friendly state/city and you have a reason for doing so I don't think you have anything to worry about. I do carry my own handloads for woods carry and animal defense. Why? Because in my neck of the woods we don't have brown bears and black bears are only a minor concern. Most 357 magnum outdoors loads are hard cast 180 grain grizzly loads, if you want a 158 grain hard cast SWC your factory options are 38+p (Underwood, Buffalo Bore, Doubletap) or you have to load your own. I prefer a 158 myself so if I want a hard cast 158 grain 357 load my only option is to load it myself.