"Constitutional" Carry...

REParker

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2025
Messages
11
Reaction score
29
Location
SC
TRUE "Constitutional Carry" is *NOT* just another law, which gives you "permission" to carry without a license. Such a law can be repealed at any time should the winds of politics change! TRUE Constitutional Carry is the repeal and/or abolition of any and all existing laws which infringe upon...or even address...the Right recognized under the Second Amendment. Nothing less will suffice!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Register to hide this ad
TRUE "Constitutional Carry" is *NOT* just another law, which gives you "permission" to carry without a license. Such a law can be repealed at any time should the winds of politics change! TRUE Constitutional Carry is the repeal and/or abolition of any and all existing laws which infringe upon...or even address...the Right recognized under the Second Amendment. Nothing less will suffice!
You have a point. The CC laws came from state legislatures and signed by governors. CC light.

Maybe call it permitless carry.
 
Last edited:
Totally agree. My state got “permitless carry” a couple years ago and so many call it “Constitutional Carry” and that grinds my gears because it surely is not.

In fact, “permitless” bothers me also because I have always called it a license to carry… I pay this ridiculous tax to get the proper paperwork but I have never asked for nor have been granted “permission.”

Some folks think I am just being difficult or obstinate. They might be accurate, but I feel that words matter.
 
The U.S. constitution is either the law of the land (the entire U.S., not just select parts) or it isn't. In my opinion, there is no gray area. If there are gray areas, then all rights as defined in the constitution are based upon your geographic location, which renders the constitution null and void.
 
TRUE "Constitutional Carry" is *NOT* just another law, which gives you "permission" to carry without a license. Such a law can be repealed at any time should the winds of politics change! TRUE Constitutional Carry is the repeal and/or abolition of any and all existing laws which infringe upon...or even address...the Right recognized under the Second Amendment. Nothing less will suffice!
The idea of a nation-wide permit-less or Constitutional Carry law is a pipe dream. Ain’t Happenin’.
I don’t waste any of my already limited brain space dreaming about how nice it will be when it becomes fact.
 
That leaves only one state that I am aware of, CC since its founding March 4th 1791. Vermont. Our right to CC is a constitutional right, not a granted right. Kinda leaves us screwed on the reciprocity thing since we never had a permit system, but that's OK.
 
Having been born, raised and worked most of my adult life in one of those gray area states (NJ) I moved out as soon as my wife and I retired.

I will say that it's not just gray, the legislators actively enact laws with minor changes in wording to appear to comply with Supreme Court ruling while knowing it will be years before challenges work their way back up the system to the Supreme's once again. It's going on right now revamping CC laws.
 
In law school early on they taught us that a fair reading of the Bible was subject to interpretation of the reader, just like a book on the theory of the flat earth or the source of creation, you can read and interpret based upon what ever reading skills and life experiences you had on that particular day.

But the US Constitution was designed and planned quite differently and in a better way. The reason is that the language, what it meant and how it was applied would be up to a balance of power, that balance being the Courts, the Executive Branch and the lawmakers or Congress.

The language of the original documents, would later be supplemented by a growing number of Amendments, with no end in sight.

In simple terms, if there was some misunderstanding as to language issues or applicability issues, it is pretty simple, the Court decides and if it needs change, the lawmakers fix it simple as that.

And every day now we hear some know it all tell us that someone is doing unconstitutional things. So now the Courts will have to look at the original language, determine what it meant and whether any changes by lawmakers are correct.

There is no wording about Constitutional carry. Many assume the right to keep and bear gives that right. And many of us would want to agree. But keep and carry where?

There has never been a law giving a right that allows one to exercise that right anywhere he chooses, not one.

Everything has restrictions, and on Constitutional issues, the Courts get to decide what those restrictions are.

In early American there were no nuclear plants that barred us from walking inside with our chosen carry gun, today, there are none that will allow it. And that is inherently Constitutional.

The many states, cities and towns over the years have chosen to restrict the carry of guns, the ones mentioned in the Constitution that we can keep and bear. And lots of them have been very restrictive. Nobody reading this is so naive as to think that you will ever carry your CCW into the Superbowl, should you get a ticket. And nobody reading this is so naive as to think that you will ever carry your CCW into a college foot ball game or even a high school ball game--legally.

We know that because of the evolution of the Constitutional carry rights that exist today. That leaves us with a favorable Supreme Court, the only place that can define how carry applies to us in the world today.

We also have a favorable president and Congress to some degree. Our best bet is to get them to define the right as broadly as possible so we have more Constitutionally defined places that allow carry.

Shall not be infringed is often cited, so what? The Sup Court gets to decide what that language means, not me with my advanced legal training, and not the Senate with their far superior legal training. Just those 9 people who have that job on the Court. They get to decide the real meaning of all such words.

Regardless of how bizarre we might want the definition to be, we are just trying to impose our opinion of language, over the opinion of those 9 people who the Constitution gave that "right" to. The Constitution gave the right to define all amendments to the Supreme Court. And no matter how much we might like to steal away that right and use our own more literal interpretation, we do not have that right, and never will.

Just the way it is. Practically speaking, I do not care how they define it. When I became a s CCW instructor in 1996, there were only a handful of states where I could carry under my permit. Today, it is 38 states. My RV will not go to the other states anymore, and I am good with that.

Constitutional carry is where I go, by choice, never going to see some states again, and I am good with that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The idea of a nation-wide permit-less or Constitutional Carry law is a pipe dream. Ain’t Happenin’.
I don’t waste any of my already limited brain space dreaming about how nice it will be when it becomes fact.
You know, I remember - not very long ago - being promised that suppressors and SBRs/SBSs would never be removed from the NFA. Now, I'm not holding my breath by any means, but we're currently the closest to getting them delisted as we've ever been, even while court cases regarding the constitutionality (hah!) of the NFA itself are finally, if slowly, also winding their ways through the system.
Sometimes, pipe dreams are achievable. (But don't hold your breath; blue would look as bad on you as it does me!)
 
Semantics aside (and God stretch out a helping hand to any poor soul that has confidence in SCOTUS being a trustworthy guardian and interpreter of what is Constitutional) on what "Constitutional Carry" is, here's a question for all:

Would the original states have ratified either the Constitution or the Bill of Rights if they had possessed some magical ability to see how so many states and so many federal judges, including on SCOTUS, today "interpret" the Second Amendment?

Nope. Never would have happened.

Or at least, not without rewriting the Second Amendment (and a few others of the original Amendments) to make it bulletproof and invulnerable to police state fascists in government.

The Founders took many of the precepts their great-grandfathers wrote into the English Bill Of Rights, including the enumerated right to "keep arms for their defense". They believe they wrote improved and far stronger language than that into the Second Amendment to ensure Americans were protected from future equally overbearing and tyrannical elected government like the English Parliament that abused them and ultimately made war on them.

Boy... did they get that one wrong!
 
Semantics aside (and God stretch out a helping hand to any poor soul that has confidence in SCOTUS being a trustworthy guardian and interpreter of what is Constitutional) on what "Constitutional Carry" is, here's a question for all:

Would the original states have ratified either the Constitution or the Bill of Rights if they had possessed some magical ability to see how so many states and so many federal judges, including on SCOTUS, today "interpret" the Second Amendment?

Nope. Never would have happened.

Or at least, not without rewriting the Second Amendment (and a few others of the original Amendments) to make it bulletproof and invulnerable to police state fascists in government.

The Founders took many of the precepts their great-grandfathers wrote into the English Bill Of Rights, including the enumerated right to "keep arms for their defense". They believe they wrote improved and far stronger language than that into the Second Amendment to ensure Americans were protected from future equally overbearing and tyrannical elected government like the English Parliament that abused them and ultimately made war on them.

Boy... did they get that one wrong!
Many of the original states would not have ratified the Constitution if they would have known of the 13th, 14th or 19th Amendments.
 
I'll just leave this here and let others comment.
The corrupt role Chief Justice John Marshall played in engineering Marbury v. Madison is an excellent example of why SCOTUS should never be trusted to be fair minded interpreters of constitutional issues.

Marshall was Adam's SecState. When they lost the election to Jefferson, prior to Jefferson taking office their lame-duck Congress rushed to create 16 new federal circuit judgeships for Adams to fill with his party loyalists like Marbury before leaving office, in an effort to preserve his party’s control of the judiciary and to frustrate the legislative agenda of Jefferson and his party.

After being part of that in the Adams administration, and now being on SCOTUS, Marshall was happy to go from being Adam's Secretary of State to being a SCOTUS judge deciding on what his former boss Adams had done was proper or not.

The original political hit job carried out by the Judicial Branch on the Executive Branch. Marshall engineered judicial oversight power over the Executive Branch - but no other branch got oversight power over the now all powerful, unelected, and untouchable Judicial Branch.
 
Indiana is pretty gun friendly state. Permit less carry was adopted a few years ago. Never heard it called Constitution Carry here. I have had a carry "permit" since the mid 60s. Several years ago, permit holders were allowed to upgrade to lifetime permits, which I did. No big deal. I didn't think permit less carry was a good idea but the powers that be didn't ask me. Doesn't seemed to have changed things much. The 13 yr old punks in their hoodies and running shoes probably can't read well enough to know what the state laws are any way and continue to shoot people in Indianapolis about every night.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GWW
For States to be able to over-ride a Constitutional Right makes no sense to me. I don't get how a State can ignore or rule against the US Constitution when every other amendment in it never varies, no matter where you live. IMHO, that is BS!
Chief I agree 1000%. I’ve thought this many times and get angry EVERYTIME…….. yet when the topic of nation wide reciprocity comes up. Members here will come out of the woodwork to say what a bad idea it is and how it will never work and how there’s to many obstacles. Gun owners are sometimes their own worst enemies. They’ll comment on how they could never live in a blue state, and how residents there should move. Well how bout we change the blue states rather than move. For 99.9% of gun owners 2A infringements is not a reason to pick up and move.
 
In law school early on they taught us that a fair reading of the Bible was subject to interpretation of the reader, just like a book on the theory of the flat earth or the source of creation, you can read and interpret based upon what ever reading skills and life experiences you had on that particular day.

But the US Constitution was designed and planned quite differently and in a better way. The reason is that the language, what it meant and how it was applied would be up to a balance of power, that balance being the Courts, the Executive Branch and the lawmakers or Congress.

The language of the original documents, would later be supplemented by a growing number of Amendments, with no end in sight.

In simple terms, if there was some misunderstanding as to language issues or applicability issues, it is pretty simple, the Court decides and if it needs change, the lawmakers fix it simple as that.

And every day now we hear some know it all tell us that Trump or someone else is doing unconstitutional things. So now the Courts will have to look at the original language, determine what it meant and whether any changes by lawmakers are correct.

There is no wording about Constitutional carry. Many assume the right to keep and bear gives that right. And many of us would want to agree. But keep and carry where?

There has never been a law giving a right that allows one to exercise that right anywhere he chooses, not one.

I can choose to eat human beings, chicken fry them if I want as a part of my cultural or chosen religious beliefs. But even if I have that religion, and can find dead people among highway accidents, the right to eat and right to believe that are inherent in the Constitution do not allow me do to that. It is a linear analogy and the rational is the same.

Everything has restrictions, and on Constitutional issues, the Courts get to decide what those restrictions are.

In early American there were no nuclear plants that barred us from walking inside with our chosen carry gun, today, there are none that will allow it. And that is inherently Constitutional.

The many states, cities and towns over the years have chosen to restrict the carry of guns, the ones mentioned in the Constitution that we can keep and bear. And lots of them have been very restrictive. Nobody reading this is so naive as to think that you will ever carry your CCW into the Superbowl, should you get a ticket. And nobody reading this is so naive as to think that you will ever carry your CCW into a college foot ball game or even a high school ball game--legally.

We know that because of the evolution of the Constitutional carry rights that exist today. That leaves us with a favorable Supreme Court, the only place that can define how carry applies to us in the world today.

We also have a favorable president and Congress to some degree. Our best bet is to get them to define the right as broadly as possible so we have more Constitutionally defined places that allow carry.

Shall not be infringed is often cited, so what? The Sup Court gets to decide what that language means, not me with my advanced legal training, and not the Senate with their far superior legal training. Just those 9 people who have that job on the Court. They get to decide the real meaning of all such words.

Regardless of how bizarre we might want the definition to be, we are just trying to impose our opinion of language, over the opinion of those 9 people who the Constitution gave that "right" to. The Constitution gave the right to define all amendments to the Supreme Court. And no matter how much we might like to steal away that right and use our own more literal interpretation, we do not have that right, and never will.

Just the way it is. Practically speaking, I do not care how they define it. When I became a s CCW instructor in 1996, there were only a handful of states where I could carry under my permit. Today, it is 38 states. My RV will not go to the other states anymore, and I am good with that.

Constitutional carry is where I go, by choice, never going to see some states again, and I am good with that.
"They have made the judges independent, in the fullest sense of the word. There is no power above them, to controul any of their decisions. There is no authority that can remove them, and they cannot be controuled by the laws of the legislature. In short, they are independent of the people, of the legislature, and of every power under heaven. Men placed in this situation will generally soon feel themselves independent of heaven itself." Article 3, Section 2, Clause 1. Brutus, no. 15. 20 Mar. 1788.

While Robert Yates (?) was speaking of English Judges, his concern was about the courts in our constitution. Time seems to have proven him right.
 
In law school early on they taught us that a fair reading of the Bible was subject to interpretation of the reader, just like a book on the theory of the flat earth or the source of creation, you can read and interpret based upon what ever reading skills and life experiences you had on that particular day.

But the US Constitution was designed and planned quite differently and in a better way. The reason is that the language, what it meant and how it was applied would be up to a balance of power, that balance being the Courts, the Executive Branch and the lawmakers or Congress.

The language of the original documents, would later be supplemented by a growing number of Amendments, with no end in sight.

In simple terms, if there was some misunderstanding as to language issues or applicability issues, it is pretty simple, the Court decides and if it needs change, the lawmakers fix it simple as that.

And every day now we hear some know it all tell us that Trump or someone else is doing unconstitutional things. So now the Courts will have to look at the original language, determine what it meant and whether any changes by lawmakers are correct.

There is no wording about Constitutional carry. Many assume the right to keep and bear gives that right. And many of us would want to agree. But keep and carry where?

There has never been a law giving a right that allows one to exercise that right anywhere he chooses, not one.

I can choose to eat human beings, chicken fry them if I want as a part of my cultural or chosen religious beliefs. But even if I have that religion, and can find dead people among highway accidents, the right to eat and right to believe that are inherent in the Constitution do not allow me do to that. It is a linear analogy and the rational is the same.

Everything has restrictions, and on Constitutional issues, the Courts get to decide what those restrictions are.

In early American there were no nuclear plants that barred us from walking inside with our chosen carry gun, today, there are none that will allow it. And that is inherently Constitutional.

The many states, cities and towns over the years have chosen to restrict the carry of guns, the ones mentioned in the Constitution that we can keep and bear. And lots of them have been very restrictive. Nobody reading this is so naive as to think that you will ever carry your CCW into the Superbowl, should you get a ticket. And nobody reading this is so naive as to think that you will ever carry your CCW into a college foot ball game or even a high school ball game--legally.

We know that because of the evolution of the Constitutional carry rights that exist today. That leaves us with a favorable Supreme Court, the only place that can define how carry applies to us in the world today.

We also have a favorable president and Congress to some degree. Our best bet is to get them to define the right as broadly as possible so we have more Constitutionally defined places that allow carry.

Shall not be infringed is often cited, so what? The Sup Court gets to decide what that language means, not me with my advanced legal training, and not the Senate with their far superior legal training. Just those 9 people who have that job on the Court. They get to decide the real meaning of all such words.

Regardless of how bizarre we might want the definition to be, we are just trying to impose our opinion of language, over the opinion of those 9 people who the Constitution gave that "right" to. The Constitution gave the right to define all amendments to the Supreme Court. And no matter how much we might like to steal away that right and use our own more literal interpretation, we do not have that right, and never will.

Just the way it is. Practically speaking, I do not care how they define it. When I became a s CCW instructor in 1996, there were only a handful of states where I could carry under my permit. Today, it is 38 states. My RV will not go to the other states anymore, and I am good with that.

Constitutional carry is where I go, by choice, never going to see some states again, and I am good with that.
Hi Law Dog. Do you qualify for LEOSA, under 18 USC 926C?
 
The Dean of my law school could have easily explained why Obergefell is wrongly decided so, as you might imagine, I could echo that, but let's stick to firearms

This is a snippet from Law-Dog: There is no wording about Constitutional carry. Many assume the right to keep and bear gives that right. And many of us would want to agree. But keep and carry where?

There has never been a law giving a right that allows one to exercise that right anywhere he chooses, not one.

The first and most obvious piece that proves Law-Dog's point is the famous SCOTUS remark that we don't have the right to "yell FIRE in a crowded theater". That is outside the realm of free speech, just as calling someone a thief, a murderer, a philanderer, or a child molester, etc., is defamatory and impermissible, and will cost you thousands, unless you can prove that the statement is true. The Sullivan case exception is an unfortunate exception.

So, going back to the Constitution in re firearms, we must digress to consider cases that applied Federal law to the States. Over the 100 years after the passage of the 14th Amendment, and in our case 145 years, the Second Amendment did not apply to the States. Each of the Federal Bill of Rights was applied to the States through the due process clause of the 14th Amendment. In 2010, in the McDonald case, SCOTUS finally incorporated the Second Amendment's right to keep and bear arms to the several States (and local governments). Essentially, that means that states cannot arbitrarily ban individuals from owning handguns for self-defense, as the right to own firearms is now a fundamental right protected at all levels of government.
That covers "KEEP".
But what about "BEAR"? Or "carry", as Law-Dog writes? The Heller case left reasonable restrictions in place. So each State, and each local government, absent a state preemption rule, can still place restrictions on carrying firearms. In a recent thread I noted that ALL Federal facilities ban firearms. How is this possible?

It's really quite simple. You never lose the right to make decisions about what activities you will or will not permit on your own property. Leaving out National Forests, that's a whole separate discussion, all Post Offices, Federal office buildings, and courthouses, and even rented offices, are all automatically covered by this Federal ban.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander - if you can make that decision in your home or place of business, the government has the same right and ability.
 
Back
Top
OSZAR »